elisi | A few stray thoughts...

Watching VM last night ('Hot Dog'? The one with dogs anyway) I was reminded of one of the most fundamental laws of TV-shows: Anything bad you ever did (or secret you kept, lie you told, etc) will come back and bite you on the @$$ sooner or later, usually at the worst time possible!

And I've been idly wondering - do the names on VM have any significance? Logan = Logan's Run?, Kane = Citizen Kane? Planets: Mars, Netune. Anything? Or is my brain just overthinking again?

For the Buffy fans:
So, why doesn't anyone go 'Oooh' and 'Aaaah' over Spike's soul in S7? Why doesn't Giles sit him down for long indepth interviews before starting to write a thesis? Why do the Scoobies not fall over themselves to be Spike's new BFF? Pardon the sarcasm, but having given it some thought...

1. I'm not sure how much they knew. Until 'Never Leave Me' not even Buffy knew anything except "I got back my soul for you". And it's not clear that she told the Scoobies even that much. In 'Him' she says: 'He has a soul now!' - and since we didn't see the scene when she told them in the first place, they were quite likely in the dark as to how he came by the soul.

2. They never really liked Angel much. In 'What's My Line' Xander says Angel is his friend, only he doesn't like him. Later, when Buffy wants to try the soul curse, Xander points out that she just want to forget about Miss Calender's murder and get her boyfriend back. They don't warm to Angel in S3, either. So enter Souled!Spike in S7, they say 'OK so he's a good guy, we'll be nice to him." But underneath it all I think they're all wondering what'll happen - Buffy already slept with him *without* a soul, so it's very likely that Buffy might gravitate towards him again. ("Why does everyone think I'm still in love with Spike?", "Buffy - I want more for you...")

3. As for Giles, he mostly sees Spike as a threat. Because of the trigger, because of Spike's attatchment to Buffy, because of Buffy's feelings 'clouding her judgment'. The world nearly ended because of Angelus and Jenny was murdered because Buffy couldn't kill him. I think that any admiration Giles might have had for Spike's feat (presuming he knew about it) would be completely overshadowed by all the potential disasters he could envisage!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

These are very interesting points. I agree, the Scoobies shouldn't fall over themselves to bring Spike into the fold just because he acquired the soul. But I do find it strange that Giles wouldn't be fascinated by a Spike's decision to get the soul. That was completely different than the curse forced on Angel, and it flies into the face of what they understood vampires to be--without remorse of any kind.

And that brings me to my real question: why *didn't* Spike think he could (or should) apologize to Buffy et al? I believe he felt guilt pre-soul (for the AR), and he clearly felt guilt post-soul for the things he had done, so why not say to one and all, "I'm sorry. I feel terrible for what I did. There is no way I can make it up to you, but I'd like to show you that I'm making an effort to be a better person, and I'd appreciate your help with that. We've all made mistakes, but I want to work alongside you to do the right thing."

Way back in Season 4, Giles made a proposal to Spike to join them, and Spike rejected the offer. But by Season 7's Beneath You he was offering himself up as a helper: "I'm just a guy who can lend a hand, if you'll let me." So, he had clearly made some progress, but that's also the episode where he said, "I can't say sorry. Can't use forgive me. All I can say is: Buffy, I've changed."

So, please tell me: why can't he "say sorry"?

So, please tell me: why can't he "say sorry"?
Now *that's* an interesting question! Thank you - I've had a lot of fun puzzling it out. ;)

Now as far as I can remember, Angel never goes on an apologising spree when he comes back in S3 - I think there's probably just too much to apologise for. Ditto Spike - and I don't think he'd apologise to the Scoobies anyway. As for Buffy, I think he figures what he did - or almost did - is pretty unforgivable. And well - he got his soul back which is a big sorry in itself...

Hm, did any of that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense, thanks. Getting the soul is a big sorry, and I guess that's why it bothers me that it wasn't acknowledged more clearly by Buffy, etc. That he made an effort to *get* it, not just that he had it. I also think there is a difference between offering regret and expecting forgiveness. I don't believe Spike expected forgiveness, but it shouldn't have prevented him from expressing sorrow.

Eh, don't mind me. I think this speaks more to a pet peeve that I have about some people being incapable of saying the words "I'm sorry." There are numerous examples of people getting caught in some scandal, and instead of simply saying, "I'm sorry, I screwed up," they turn it around to make themselves the victim, or to blame someone else, or simply blow it off as nothing. As Clem would say, I have issues.

Everyone has issues, they just vary!

A few stray thoughts...

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