elisi | A few stray thoughts...

Watching VM last night ('Hot Dog'? The one with dogs anyway) I was reminded of one of the most fundamental laws of TV-shows: Anything bad you ever did (or secret you kept, lie you told, etc) will come back and bite you on the @$$ sooner or later, usually at the worst time possible!

And I've been idly wondering - do the names on VM have any significance? Logan = Logan's Run?, Kane = Citizen Kane? Planets: Mars, Netune. Anything? Or is my brain just overthinking again?

For the Buffy fans:
So, why doesn't anyone go 'Oooh' and 'Aaaah' over Spike's soul in S7? Why doesn't Giles sit him down for long indepth interviews before starting to write a thesis? Why do the Scoobies not fall over themselves to be Spike's new BFF? Pardon the sarcasm, but having given it some thought...

1. I'm not sure how much they knew. Until 'Never Leave Me' not even Buffy knew anything except "I got back my soul for you". And it's not clear that she told the Scoobies even that much. In 'Him' she says: 'He has a soul now!' - and since we didn't see the scene when she told them in the first place, they were quite likely in the dark as to how he came by the soul.

2. They never really liked Angel much. In 'What's My Line' Xander says Angel is his friend, only he doesn't like him. Later, when Buffy wants to try the soul curse, Xander points out that she just want to forget about Miss Calender's murder and get her boyfriend back. They don't warm to Angel in S3, either. So enter Souled!Spike in S7, they say 'OK so he's a good guy, we'll be nice to him." But underneath it all I think they're all wondering what'll happen - Buffy already slept with him *without* a soul, so it's very likely that Buffy might gravitate towards him again. ("Why does everyone think I'm still in love with Spike?", "Buffy - I want more for you...")

3. As for Giles, he mostly sees Spike as a threat. Because of the trigger, because of Spike's attatchment to Buffy, because of Buffy's feelings 'clouding her judgment'. The world nearly ended because of Angelus and Jenny was murdered because Buffy couldn't kill him. I think that any admiration Giles might have had for Spike's feat (presuming he knew about it) would be completely overshadowed by all the potential disasters he could envisage!

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also everything he ever built up with the Scoobies.
Who probably weren't too keen on him anyway after the whole 'sleeping with Anya' deal.

I can't remember about Giles either, but as for the Scoobies, then I think late S5 and the summer after were probably the time Spike was closest to them. And *he* felt betrayed when they raised Buffy without telling him... not much love lost in any case.

Re. Angel, then he might not have killed, but feeding off Buffy when he was poisoned (no matter that Buffy 'made' him) probably meant that they were more than happy to see him gone.

I think Giles might have been interested if the circumstances had been different.

Hee, I made my Spike all better and conveniently forgot about the whole slepping-with-Anya-incident (which I thought wasn't all that evil in my book anyway. Demons, vampires, people - they make unwise choices when depressed/angry/lonely....).

I was referring to that late S5, Summer of Dead Buffy time when talking about him having built a relationship with the Scoobies.

And *he* felt betrayed when they raised Buffy without telling him...

Interesting. I've nbever thought about it that way. I always reckoned that in the end he was happy enough to have Buffy back - and that made all feelings of betrayal non existant.

Had he known about Willow's plan, would he really have stopped her? I know that that is what he claims he would've done, but I think if push came to shove he would have been as egoistical as the rest. I just cannot see Spike saying "no" to having Buffy back.

Or did he know something about the ritual that would have weighed in on the decision? There's a whole fic in there somewhere: assuming he'd have known that Willow's path into darkness was a definite outcome of the ritual - would he have chosen to protect her? For the cost of not getting Buffy back, in whatever unknown condition Buffy might be? Would he have chosen Willow for Dawn, maybe? Okay, I'll stop the rant pronto.

Re:Re: Angel: I certainly would feel a little "icky" around someone who just feasted off my bestest friend *g*

I was referring to that late S5, Summer of Dead Buffy time when talking about him having built a relationship with the Scoobies
I think I sort of got that, but just chose to ignore it. ;)

Interesting. I've never thought about it that way.
This from

the_royal_anna's essay on season 6 Buffy and Spike (she is sooo much cleverer than me!):

Here's a thought. If anybody is going to bring Buffy back from the dead, it ought to be Spike. I think deep down he'd see that as his choice to make, as his right. He's the Big Bad. If anybody's going to be dabbling in the below-board stuff, it ought to be him. And then, while he's never really been a part of the Scoobies, he managed to find his way into the Buffy family unit. When Dawn tries to bring Joyce back in Forever, Spike will help her out even though he knows it can't end well. If she's going to do something dangerous, it'll be him that sees it through with her, not one of the Scoobies, both because he's better equipped for taking on this kind of danger, and because he's family.

You see, I can't believe for a minute that it wouldn’t have crossed Spike's mind that it could be done. Come on, this is the Spike who not so very long ago wanted Buffy so much he had a robot substitute made. This is the Spike that tells Xander, "Willow knew there was a chance that she'd come back wrong. So wrong that you'd have ... that she would have to get rid of what came back. And I wouldn't let her. If any part of that was Buffy, I wouldn't let her." And this is key for me – somewhere along the line, Spike has to have made the decision not to go there. Because he knows Buffy better than most, and he knows exactly what kind of reaction to expect from Buffy if something like this was carried out without her consent. He says to Dawn in Forever, don’t tell Buffy. He knows where she'd stand on it.

It's about control. He makes a decision. He'll do what Buffy would have wanted.

Except, the Scoobies go ahead and take that decision out of his hands. And yes, Spike is utterly excluded from the whole process, and that's bad enough, but where it really stings is that they usurp his right to make a choice and to follow it through.

A few stray thoughts...

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